08. Erin Ollila on Making Connections and Converting Followers with Your Website

Podcast
Written By Jessica Sheehy
 

How powerful are the connections that you're making?

In this episode of Hashtag Managed, I'm joined by Erin Ollila where she shares her story of being a conversion copywriter in her sixth year of business.

Erin shares that yes, socials are important, but you need a website to really carry the nurture part of the funnel. We cover how to convert your followers with the link in bio on social media, a powerful framework for a one-page website, and the power of strong testimonials.

Take 40% off Erin's Testimonial Toolbox with the code HASHTAG, or you can just use this link to automatically take 40% off.

(JESS) Welcome back to the Hashtag Managed podcast. I'm super excited to dive into today's episode and chat with our guest. Today I'm joined with Erin Ollila, and we are going to have a really amazing conversation about all things entrepreneurship, copy, and beyond. Erin believes in the power of words and how a message can inform and even transform its intended audience. Work can be found all over the Internet and in print, and includes interviews, ghostwriting copywriting, and creative nonfiction. Erin is a geek for SEO in all things content marketing. She graduated from Fairfield University with an MFA in Creative Writing and now hosts the Talk Copy To Me podcast, Erin! Tell me a little bit more about you and why you started your business.

(ERIN) All right, perfect. Hey, friends. I'm Erin Ollila and I am an SEO website copywriter. The quick and dirty evolution is I actually have my MFA, as mentioned in my very cool bio. It's so nice to hear these things about myself. I don't actually look at or read my bio, but you just made me sound really cool, so thank you for that. I went to school because I had hoped to teach college. I love literature. I love writing. I love teaching. And after being in school and teaching in the college level, I just recognize it's a hard job to get into. And until you get into it from a tenured perspective, the pay is ridiculously too low to do full time. So I thought, well, what the heck can I do right now?

This is back in the day of when personal blogging kind of really just took off. I had my own personal blog. I loved the fact that I could meet people from all over the world and make connections with people that I didn't know from the world of blogging. And then eventually, I was fortunate enough to get a job working for a company that created blog content, specifically SEO blog content for medium sized businesses that would help with lead generation as well as conversion. So from lead to clients.

After leaving that job, which was wonderful, and I learned so much about what I do now in my own business, I kind of jumped in and did something similar. I started working with big brands to create content. Eventually, while I still do some big brand work, I work with kind of teeny tiny business owners to get their website up and running as SEO perfect as it could potentially be, so they get the right clients to their site and content as well. That goes to SEO to attract people.

(JESS) Wow, I love that. Thanks so much for sharing. It's so interesting to hear everyone start in entrepreneurship. It's always so different and it's always so fascinating how we all end up in the world of online business. And to hear that evolution, one thing that I always love to ask entrepreneurs I meet and anyone on this show is about the evolution of your online business. I know for a lot of different business owners, it can be really small shifts or it can be really huge, monumental shifts or pivots at times. So I'd love to know, how has your business changed over time with either who you're serving or how you're serving them?

(ERIN) Yeah, that's a great question. And it's also one of the things I love. I love hearing the story of how someone's interest maybe motivated them to just completely pivot or what things have happened in their business that led the change. So I think it's a really cool thing to ask at the beginning of a podcast episode. For me, I would say this goes back to even the early days of applying to college. I always kind of knew what I wanted to do. I wanted to teach and I wanted to write. And so again, that's why the MFA and all of that came in, because that's where I thought I was heading. And now that I'm here in this online business world, I remember the very first tagline I created for my business, like right out the door, marketing was write, teach, strategize. And the funniest part of I'm over six years in business now, that is the three things that have always guided my business, and those are the three things that are always a part of what I do with my clients. So I think I'm in a fortunate boat of kind of knowing what I wanted to do and then always continuing that cycle of in a sense, from the outside, it looks like I've stayed the same. I've always done the same thing. But again, I think if you want a more direct answer, the biggest pivot was probably going from doing all brand work. So again, my clients were in like the fortune 100. I wrote blog campaigns for them. We tested out SEO strategies to moving away from that. And part of it for reasoning part of it was one because I, as a small business owner myself, was foiling. I was in Facebook groups as an example with other business owners, and I was like, well, what the heck am I supposed to do with my bookkeeping, right? Nobody taught me how to do this. Yeah, sure, I went to school for a really long time. But I'll tell you one thing, bookkeeping wasn't one of them. And all of my peers then on the flip side, I'd hear them say, where do I show up on social? What do I write for my blogs? What do I say in my email list?

And I had this great knowledge that I learned from companies that had massive marketing budgets that I just felt like I had to kind of help my peers. And it started out just tiny in the sense of me literally just helping a friend and another friend. And I just loved the one on one aspect. There are things I loved about the big brands and I still love that isn't one on one. But what I loved is getting someone on a call and talking about their business and how they wanted to present themselves to their clients and then seeing that actually come into fruition and how much it changed their life and their business. You don't get that when you're just kind of like writing some blog post for a bigger company. So I think it was the need to want to again write teaching strategies like help other people in my position, but then me getting that personal satisfaction of seeing how much I helped other people. So I don't know, is this a selfish thing that I pivot selfishly because I liked helping people? Maybe the truth comes out, everyone.

(JESS) I love that. First of all, congratulations on over six years in business. Thank you. Really amazing and exciting accomplishment that I can't wait. I'm only a few years off from that goal myself, and I know so many people in our community are also wanting to create businesses that are sustainable and can last beyond the six months or one year that a lot of online businesses tend to try to get over that hurdle. I love that you mentioned that the pivot was almost selfish. I feel like a lot of times, and just in my own experience, I know there's been times where I've made pivots either big, medium or small where I feel like I was pivoting for other people. I was pivoting based on what my competitors were doing. And I'm not afraid to admit that fault and that lesson learned in doing that. I've pivoted for clients in the past, but ultimately I feel like for myself, the best strides and growth in my business have really come from pivoting for things that felt good for me, kind of bringing me back to my why for starting my business and also the lifestyle that I was looking to create with my business. It's amazing. Some of the choices that I look back, I'm kind of doing like an end of year review right now and doing some 2023 planning. I look back at some choices and I'm like, why did I even do that? I'd love to know I need to take better notes when I'm making changes in my business. I was like, what kind of mindset was I in that I was making that? Because when I look at it, it makes zero sense as to why I would have made that change. So I'm all for the selfish, pivotal business. I think we just need to give ourselves permission to do that sometimes.

(ERIN) I think we don't even recognize it. Literally explaining it to you is the first time I vocalized it in that way. Right. It was just that I got more enjoyment from talking to someone like we're talking right now, getting to know people and I love. There's so much about the big brands that was great to have a team like brainstorm together. Those are some of these things I miss from being traditionally employed, is just kind of like throwing ideas off each other. But it was just so nice, the feeling to kind of see someone's like, quote, unquote, not to make it too corny here, but, like, dream come into fruition. Once they got that website, they felt legit, right? And it's like I think maybe at the beginning of my business, there were so many things I was seeking to make me feel unquote legit that I know I didn't need now, right now, six years in. But to give someone that feeling of like, thank goodness, I can send people to my website now, or I can do this now, or oh, my gosh, leads are coming in. SEO really works, right? It felt so good. And again, like I said, I don't think a lot of the times, especially female business owners, know how to look at what feels good and make decisions around that. But it is something that I will say this many years in, and as many life changes, like actual personal life changes throughout these six years, it's definitely something you can do.

Not to go on a tangent here, I'm sorry for my long stories today, but I started my business when my middle child was a baby, like one years old. And I did it partially because I could be home with her. And for a long time it was hard for me to give myself credit for all of the hard work I had done, how great my incomes were. Because I was, like you had mentioned earlier, comparing myself against competitors and what I saw online, even when it comes to growth and not even just finances, feeling frustrated that people who had less experience than me were seeming to make it more advanced for me. So if there's anything I can give you from the six and a half year mark right now, if you're listening and you're not there yet, is do what works for you. Absolutely. And don't worry about those other people.

Because so many of those people that would make me feel jealous or envious, I would end up becoming friends with them, talking to them, and learning that they were biting off more than they could chew. They were burnt out. They were putting so much of their personal money into their business to get growth strategies, or their income wasn't the same as their profits. I could be saying that wrong, but meaning, like, they weren't making money. It just looked like it. And while I have had slow, consistent growth, I've also been able to have an additional baby. A baby is now four years old. So, I mean, it's been a while, guys, but I was able to do all of these things for my family that I wanted to do and it wasn't necessarily easy. But for me personally, I had those years at home with my kids that I really wanted and that I think has been helping me kind of stay focused. It is okay to grow however you're growing, as long as it feels good and right in your life. And I think we need to remind ourselves of that because it's so easy to fall in the trap of not seeing that.

(JESS) Yeah, wow, that was so good. And I really connect to exactly what you're saying about growing in the ways that feel right to us. And one thing that I've definitely learned being in, quote unquote, the back end of a lot of businesses on their social media marketing side, I'm on the back end of these launches, six, seven figure launches. And there is a lot that is just not shared as part of the launch strategy. Right. We highlight exactly what I just said. Six, seven figure launches. No one's talking about the size of the team, the expenses, the ad spend, the amount of days throughout the launch that the business owner or CEO is staying up  until 11:30-midnight every single night during the launch. And they are giving up so many different things in their life.

So I really appreciate you shedding light on that because one thing that I think is super important to highlight for everyone is that success looks different for everyone. There's no one size fits all to a successful online business, and that can be carried across so many different things, so many different areas of our businesses. And just because someone who is your competitor, or maybe not your competitor, maybe they're a friend who is another type of service based entrepreneur who is seeing a lot of success. Until you really have those conversations and kind of peel back layer by layer to see and compare things side by side, you'll really be surprised how similar we actually all are as entrepreneurs when it comes down to it.

(ERIN) Yeah, 100%.

(JESS) One thing that you mentioned that I want to kind of circle back to, because I know it is such a prominent thing that a lot of entrepreneurs and business owners and so many industries deal with, is the thoughts of having a website that they're comfortable showing to people online. It's like you said, it's one of those things that we kind of feel like we need certain things, we need to check off the boxes in a certain order to be a legitimate business or to reach that success that we keep circling back to. So what advice would you give to someone who is either just starting out with writing copy or creating a website for their business? And they maybe feel either they're not ready to show, maybe they're embarrassed to show it to people, or that they feel like they're not a great writer or marketer themselves.

(ERIN) That's a really good question. One, I really believe that business owners can write their own copy? Do I think that they always should? Of course not. But especially for the people starting out, I want to encourage you to go for it, to write your own copy. If you're struggling or if you're confused on where to start, hire a Copy coach. It's one of the things I do in my business, and I love working with DIYers because I can step in and tell them, have that one objective look to their own business, and two, I can tell them exactly what to do, and then they just do it. And I know that sounds so simple, but I think we need to address that.

Everyone has blinders on when it comes to their own business, as well as everyone knows their own business so well in their head that the pressure to get that out written on the page is overwhelming. And I can use myself as an example again. Guys, we've talked about this like, 42 times on this episode. I've been in business for six and a half years. I've had many different iterations of my website. As we are recording, I am currently adjusting the copy and design on my website, which will be unfortunately I wish I could show you guys the before and afters, but it'll be live by the time this episode launches.

Gosh, it was so hard to write my new copy. It was awful. And I literally specialize in website copywriting, my friends. It was torturous. I completely empathize with you where you're coming from, and you know why? For me, the biggest reason was it didn't feel natural to be a client. It didn't feel natural to talk about myself, to boast about myself when I'm helping someone else do it. I know the questions to ask you to get you to boast without recognizing your boasting. And more importantly for the DIYers, I think the key area of Copy Coach is helpful, is organizing thoughts. So the best way to describe it is outlining what goes on the page, because there are really good writers out there and they just don't know how to write from a marketing lens. But the content is good. So I know I'm stepping here.

If you can work with a copy coach, absolutely, go ahead and do it. If you cannot and you are completely solo DIYing your copy. My number one advice, I feel like this is something that I've talked about recently, and you're going to hear me say a million times, is to get your website in tiptop shape, period. There's no offenses or buts here. I'm not cutting you guys any slack. If that means that you have just a one page, very short website, look at it as like a resume website, that's fine. You do not need to have a 15 page website in order for it to be successful.

You can have a website that just has a short intro to who you are and this is specifically more for personal brands. If you're like a product based business or your business itself is the brand and you're not in it, you don't need it to hugely introduce yourself but you want to introduce yourself, you want to introduce the need that your client has that you can help them with. And I just want to point out here I said need and not problem because I think that we're so often taught to chase like the copywriting method which is called Pas which is problem agitate and solution. And that's a great copywriting method, there is nothing wrong with it.

But if you're DIYing I want you to change your perspective and I want you to think of either need or desire, like what is my person's need or desire? And then how you can get them like you as the business can get them from where they are to that desired outcome. And if you do it that way it's going to feel a lot less hard. You're going to feel a lot less like you're the sleazy salesperson because you're just like that pal that's showing up to move them and to help them. And we all know we can't be everything to everyone or do everything for everyone, but if we can be that one part assistance to get them to a desired state, it's a lot easier to talk like that because you're talking like you're a friend.

So again, just a quick repeat. If you can't work with a copy coach, just focus on getting something online that you are proud of, even if it is just one page that's treated like a resume or just a few pages because obviously this is a social media show. We're talking about how we show up on social and I don't mean this in any negative way, but no matter what, everything comes back to your website. If you find someone on social, you'll go and check out their website. It might not be the first thing that you do but especially if someone is brand new to you, they're going to check you out. So yeah, that was a big grant but basically get that website in tiptop shape. Friends.

(JESS) Oh that was so good. I feel like for everyone listening and even for myself. We need to go back and just relisten to that section right there, because there were so many good points about that, because I think a lot of entrepreneurs and even myself when thinking about website copy, it's so overwhelming. And I have to say it's so interesting to hear your perspective about also updating your copy.

I feel the same way when it comes to so many different elements in my business and I always have to outsource because I feel like I always have to practice what I teach preach. If I'm telling people to outsource their social media marketing to the experts and to people who love it and stay on top of trends and all of that. I think it's so important to that. But I think you brought up a really great point about having that onepage website. So many people that are in our community, they're brand new to social media management, or they're content creators, or they're just new online entrepreneurs. And for months, months, they are updating and creating their website. And I get it.

There's always the thought of, okay, I need a really extensive home page. I need an about page that needs to share everything and anything about me and everything I love, and my favorite coffee drink and my favorite Netflix show to binge. And while all of those are great to have, it's definitely not what you need to start. And it's also not going to be why people hire you. I can guarantee zero of our clients have hired me because of my favorite coffee drink. They probably don't even know what it is, to be honest. But there's so much that goes into that. And then service pages. And if you have more than one service, or if you have programs and having a page for everyone, it can be really, really overwhelming. So I think the tip you gave about creating that one pager website that acts as a resume makes it really, really attainable for people to create. I'd love to know, is there anything else that you would recommend we add on to that one page website? Should we add some social proof? Should we add anything else in terms of, like, call to actions? Do you have any advice around that?

(ERIN) Yeah, absolutely. And I'm really glad you asked this because I'm so used to thinking of a one page website as a resume in my mind. But I actually don't want people to think of it as, let's list my experience. Right? So maybe I should rephrase this a little. When you have a one page website, you can lay it out very simply. Everyone could literally follow the same quote unquote template I'm about to share with you.

So you're going to need a hero section. And what that is, is on the top of your website, what people see when they first click on it is usually a picture, a picture of you, if you can. That always helps. But there's a statement there, and that is usually what we call a value proposition statement. So it's the what I can do for you. And my absolute rule for this is you need to phrase it so that it actually speaks to your ideal client and their needs, not your expertise. So an example here is mine. For example, I could say I'm the copywriter who does X, Y, and Z, but instead it says something like how strategic and SEO content can get eyes on their website, right? So I'm giving them that benefit right away. And I'm not talking about what I can do. So that's my rule. You have to follow the rule or we can't be friends with all right after that.

What I always recommend, especially again, this is just for a one page website, is you want to have a short copy section. And the reason you want to do this is you want to stay on that thought for a little while. Transitions is something everyone forgets to do on their website. But imagine if you met someone, a networking event and you're like, hi, I'm Erin, I'm an SEO copywriter. The podcast is about the freebie does, right? Like, it doesn't make any sense. You need to flow. So in that copy section, I just suggest that you kind of expand on what you said in your hero section. If you are confused and you don't know what to say there, the best thing to do is just think about, again, the desire of the client and talk about how they can get to the desire. Keep it simple. It doesn't have to be long. After that, introduce yourself as the solution. Right? Like, I am Erin, and yes, I can help you get more people to look at your website in that little about section is where you can kind of pull in some of that personality which you were talking about. There's absolutely nothing wrong with talking about your favorite coffee. I talk about my love for Trevor Noah, even though I'm married. I talk about my love of pretzel bread and ice cream. Right. I think actually, if I'm going to be honest, I think ice cream is in the homepage of my website. So just throw a quick fun fact, if that's your personality. If it's not, leave it out. You don't need that. Introduce yourself from the way that you would an elevator pitch. So I'm erin. I do this. I love to help for this reason.

After that, the next thing you're going to want to do is explain exactly how you help. Now, because this is a one page website, you're not leading them anywhere. If this were a little bit bigger, I would suggest making it clickable so they could click right into the service that you're offering or the product, let's say you're offering. But there's nothing wrong with having a picture that says, like, let's say a VA, for example. Like, I help people with email management. I help people with whatever else you help them with. It doesn't have to be clickable, just showcase it. So that way now they know that you understand their problem.

They also know that you can help them with their problem. And, well, I say problem here, even though I just lectured. I wasn't going to say problem. But then you're sharing exactly how you can do it, because that's everything you need. The one thing that you have to have is a way for them to get in contact with you. So if you want it to be to book a call, make that the button at the bottom of your page with drawing attention to it, obviously, and throw it up in that hero section at the top so that you're really reminding them to go book a call. If it is that, just to fill out an application or email you, whatever it is, just make sure you do that because you don't want to supply them with this great template of moving them along the thought process and introducing yourself to them without giving them the opportunity to actually connect with you.

(JESS) That is really, really great advice in terms of setting up that page. And I can visually see everything that you're laying out and just it seems like when we talk about it, it seems like all really simple things, right? But so often it's missing. Recently, I was on the search for a brand photographer for an upcoming brand photo shoot, which I'm not doing anytime soon because I was unsuccessful finding someone. And the reason why I could not find someone to hire for this is I couldn't get in contact with anyone. I almost should have screen recorded it to really showcase the amount of times that I would go to a website. I would see that they offer brand photo shoots in my area.

I would see that I love their work. It's very visual. But I couldn't find a way to book a call with any of them. A few of them, I was able to find places to fill out an application form about what I was looking for in the brand photo shoot. But from there it was still very complicated. I think a lot of times, too, as entrepreneurs, we don't mean to, but we really do over complicate everything in our business. We over complicate our website, our copy, our social media strategy. Sometimes we over complicate our offers, but there's a lot of over complication to it, and a lot of times just simplifying it makes it so much easier, especially when we're circling back around to making sure that we're keeping our ideal client or customer in mind and making it really easy for them. So I love that you highlighted exactly where to put that call to action to get them to do what you need them to do, whether it's a call, an application, but make it super, super easy. I think that's so important.

One thing that I want to talk about is sort of in conjunction with websites and social media, but in terms of creating an Instagram link page. This goes hand in hand with myself trying to find this brand photographer where I would find so many amazing people through Instagram, thanks to Instagram's SEO. But I couldn't find out how to get to their website. I would have to go to Google on my computer and Instagram on my phone and try to connect the dots to see if it was the same business. So I'd love to know any recommendations that you. Have for a page for Instagram links page for any small business owner.

(ERIN) Yeah. So I will say one of my favorite mottos for my business is it depends. So I try to not make quote unquote rules for people, but one thing I will say I like more personally is a links page that lives on your website, not using a different tool. Now, I do think that certain tools work really well, I like how they're set up. But what you just said is what really sparked that for me because I've clicked the link in someone's bio before only to end up on a tool and have zero clue how to get to their website.

So then I have to make the decision is this important enough for me to actually google them and try to figure out where their website is? And quite often for consumers it is not important enough, right? Like it's just making them work harder. So I think you should have your IG links page on your website and I think that we should approach this from an easy perspective. So people over complicate this, right? If they've been on a podcast episode, there's links to every single one, there's their own blog post, a ton of links.

I wish that we could make this as dynamic as we want to, but that's just not how Instagram works. It's not our business, it's how Instagram works. So the best way to do it I think, is to be as simple and direct and clear. If there is something you talk about all the time, for example, this podcast, you're going to want to have a button at the top that leads them to your podcast page on your website so they can listen to the recordings as well as read the show notes. So that's an easy one. So there are other things that people do though that might not be a podcast.


It might be if they produce a lot of case studies for their business, just send them to the case studies page. It might be a blog. If they're regularly creating blog content and sharing it, just make a button for the blog. It is helpful sometimes to have a teeny tiny bio section so maybe it starts with a small picture of your face, one or two sentence bio and then you have those buttons. Other successful things that you can do are putting your services on the page. So for example, in my old iteration of my website, I had it set up where it was done for you, done with you or DIY. So people could then click on one of those to learn on how they could work with me. And again, that was my old website. But that's it, that's all I had because I wanted people to make the purchase or go to the places that I knew I'd be sending them and I could easily send them to the same place. Now there are situations, though, when news things happen or event based things happen, that we want to make sure we showcase.

For example, if you're in a summit or if you're in a bundle, you're going to want to add a temporary button. You're also going to want to put in your calendar to remove it. Because I can't tell you how often I've gone to people's pages and just seen outdated links that aren't serving them. So that's the quick answer. But there's one little trick that I do with my clients because I care so much about SEO, and that is to add a Frequently Asked Questions all the way at the bottom. Because if you're focusing on SEO and this is kind of next level, right? Like previously we told you you just need one page on your website. This is for you.

If you have a website that you're comfortable sharing, add a Frequently Asked Questions to the bottom of your Instagram links page because Google wants to see content on the pages. And what will happen is in an SEO error report, you'll get not enough content on the page. It's every single Instagram links page I've ever seen in my life for my clients. So Google will read Nested comments, which I mean nested things on the page, which is basically what Frequently Asked Questions are. So you can have some of those questions your clients ask of you and that nurtures the lead that finds their way to this page and it gives Google that little indicator that they want to send people to a page like this.

(JESS) Yeah, really great advice there. And I am probably constantly updating my link pages for Instagram, just trying to think and just going off of what I'm seeing that we're doing on other client accounts and whatnot things are always changing and I'm trying to figure out, okay, what can I do to increase conversions on one button on the link page or whatnot? Oftentimes when? Same instance that you mentioned. When I go to someone's link page, I'm not going to name the tool, but I go to the page and I see that tools branding and it's kind of overpowering the link page and sometimes it covers some of the buttons at the bottom and I don't really know what I'm looking at.

And oftentimes I'm scrolling for what feels like gaze for links. And I know a lot of times it comes down to how we're naming the links and all of that, but I think it's a really great advice to make sure that we're only putting on the links that make sense and making sure that we are adding those FAQs. Because I think that is just going to help increase the experience that our clients or customers are going to have with us.

So of course this is a social media podcast, but one thing that is super important that I always like to share as part of an overall social media strategy is always sending people to your website. So I love that. We talked a lot about the one page website. We went a little bit in depth on that, but then we talked about how to have that links page to make sure we're sending people to the right things that we want to, to help support our social media strategy and efforts. Because let's all face it, as business owners, no matter what we do, if we're marketers, if we're not marketers, sometimes we get a little frustrated with that.

But I'd love to talk about something that I see done a lot. Sometimes I don't see it done so well, and sometimes I don't see anything at all. And I'm like, is there anything out there? But I want to talk about using testimonials and social proof on social media. I'd love to hear any advice that you have surrounding that.

(ERIN) Oh, yes, I'm so glad you asked me this, because after I stopped talking the past two times, my long chats, I was like, oh, you forgot to mention testimonials so quickly. Throw testimonials on that one page website. And yes, you can put testimonials on your Instagram links page as well. But to answer your specific question, testimonials are ripe content for social media. I don't create a lot of social content except for my own business. But what my clients ask me about always is how to show up on social. And we're going to assume you have testimonials at this point, and if you don't, I can chat about that very quickly. But if you have testimonials, look at them as both something you can share, like naturally on their own, as well as touch points for other social posts you can create.

So here's an example. Let's pretend you are someone who helps people set up their Dubsado accounts. And then your client leaves a testimonial for you. And I can say this because I have had my Dubsado help before. So your client leaves a testimonial that says, like, you've changed my business, you've changed my life. Everything is so streamlined. I feel more confident showing up as myself and my business because all of these wheels are going in the background for me. That's a testimonial that you have. The first thing you do is you create a piece of content just with a testimonial. This is the cheat. This is the easy one, right? So go into Canva, throw the testimonial on a little Canva template, plop it on over on your Instagram or Facebook, wherever you want. Maybe the actual social post here is shorter. And you just say something to the effect of, like, I work with this client on this, and this is what they said about our time together and that's it. So, again, friends, this is so easy to do. All you have to do is shar what you already have. But they can up level this.

You don't have to let it end. There a lot of the times I'll see clients with long testimonials and they don't know what to do, and I always suggest breaking it up. You'll find that in a long testimonial, there are multiple points being made. So, for example, in what I just shared about working with a Dubsado person, there's a few points there's giving me back time, there is making me feel more confident as a business owner. There is having things run smoothly behind the scenes. And those are three different social posts. So the Dubsado specialist could say, hey, here's, I just helped Erin get more time back in her day. Here's what she has to say about it. They share what I say and they explain why it's important. They explain why it can help someone else. They end with a call to action that says, are you interested in I mean, this is a little generic, but it's like, are you interested in getting more time in your day? Let's connect so we can figure out how I can help you do this. If it's the quote about showing up more confidently, they can choose to have a canva template, just like the first one that says that tiny quote.

So it's just like a sentence now and then. What they can say in their social post is, we all know how different it feels when we're showing up confidently or when we're nervous about what we're going to say. You don't have to feel nervous. You don't have to feel like an imposter. You should be the expert, and I want to help you do that. You don't even have to reference the testimonial. You don't even have to talk about Aaron in this. You just showcase it as that jump off point to be able to talk about what you can offer your client again, how they get that desire accomplished, or your actual services.

So I'm sure Jessica could tell you a lot more about this. When it comes to social media, we don't have to sell these testimonials can definitely be a selling. You can say you want those same results, book your call, or you can just provide it as like a jumping off point to get your client thinking about the ways that you work with other people.

(JESS) I love all the points that you made about not only where we can put our testimonials, how we should be putting them on our website. I love the idea of putting them on a link page. That's something that I think sometimes I see them on link pages, but not enough, and I think we need to actually start utilizing them more. And I know you kind of mentioned about breaking it up in so many different pieces. A lot of times when I am talking to a business owner about the testimonials that they have, sometimes they're super short and sometimes they're really long, and they just kind of feel like since they have a lot of different versions or a lot of different sizes.

They're like, it doesn't seem cohesive, and that's really not the case that it needs to be cohesive, but it's just the use for each testimonial. So I think that's such a great thing to mention for any business owner. I'm sure we could talk so much about how to gather testimonials, but I love to hear if there's any quick advice or any great formula that you would offer to someone who maybe isn't collecting testimonials. Or maybe the better question could be how to get better testimonials from the clients or customers they're working with.

(ERIN) Yeah, I'm glad you brought it back here because I did say I would talk about what to do if you don't have the testimonials, because that's a real problem, and I see it all of the time. I actually created an entire course on how to get testimonials and to organize them because I was just so frustrated hearing my clients, who are these incredible and professional business owners, be like, yeah, I don't have any. And I'd be like, what do you mean you don't have any? You're so cool. I know how cool you are. And they either didn't ask because of fear or because of not knowing what to say, or maybe they did ask and they just didn't get a response, so they left it at that. All right, I'm going to ask. You guys listening, put yourself in the role of a consumer, for example, right? Like, if you have someone who you've hired that they did a great job and they email you once and you forget to respond to their email, would you be mad at them if they emailed you a second time as a follow up? No, you would not. You wouldn't. You would be like, thank you. All right, honestly, let's just say me, because I forget everything. I would be like, oh, my gosh, thank you so much. I forgot to respond. Like, I'm embarrassed, and I'm so grateful. So the number one thing is we have to have the ask.

We have to put ourselves out there, and there's an easy way to do that. I think everyone thinks that you cannot ask for a testimonial until the end of a project, and that's absolutely not the case. I always tell people, and my course is kind of built on the foundation that we need to ask testimonial, like, questions throughout the time that we work with our clients, and we have to kind of be the note taker so that we can present this back to our clients.

So, for example, a photographer, let's just say, who is even like a photographer that doesn't work with you for a long time, let's say it's a mini shoot. Before the shoot gets booked and you're filling out a form for them to collect information, they can ask a question like, what would be a successful shoot for you like, what are you looking to accomplish here? And they might tell you they want individual pictures of all three of their kids, let's just say as an example, well, you know, then what to provide them? They just give you the answer. Now, when you're taking the pictures of the kids, maybe you show them a picture on the back of your screen and say, like, how are you feeling about this? And I think people are afraid to ask for feedback because they are afraid they'll get something negative in return.

But feedback is the kindest gift your client can give you, because if they're not 100% happy with what you're doing, it will give you the opportunity to pivot, to make them happy versus just keeping your fingers crossed until the end. So at that moment, that's another good testimonial time where if they're happy, maybe, and they say something kind or they say something specific, you just take a note of it or you ask them a specific question. It doesn't work so well with a photographer, for example, but maybe a service provider. It could be like, at this point in our project, what's been the biggest win at this point in our project? What have you been most impressed by when it comes to working with me? So I won't harp on this forever, but basically build it into your actual time, the whole time you work with clients and then make sure you check in at the end, right?

So you can either present them the information you've collected and say, hey, in this email you said X, Y, and Z. Could I use this as a testimonial? Or can we expand on it by one more sentence, maybe, and use it as a testimonial? Or if you don't have those notes taken, you can also say something like, I know you really liked when this happened. Would you be willing to write a sentence or two about why it was important to you? And the reason I bring up this specific example is because what I find is people get a lot of testimonials that will say something like, that was great, thanks so much.

You're so good at your job, which is the vaguest, unexciting testimonial in the world. So if we ask pointed questions, we get to control the answers we get. So, for example, maybe it's I'll take me as a copywriter, for example. A lot of times I'll get testimonials about my writing or my strategy help. But I found myself not getting a lot of testimonials about the copy coaching, let's say, or specific about maybe wire framing a website and why that was exciting, and I wanted to use those. So I just made sure my next client, I asked them about that.

It takes the pressure off of the client because you're asking them a pointed question that they know how to answer, and then again, follow up with repeat emails or ask them sometimes people just don't like to share information in a particular way. You might have a client who feels uncomfortable with that blank email and they don't know what to say, but if you say, can we get on a video call? And I won't even use it if you don't want me to use the video, but I'll record what you say, they'll start going on and on and on about what they liked. Right. So present them with whatever way that they communicate with best and ask pointed questions.

(JESS) Yeah. Not only in terms of collecting and gathering more testimonials or getting better at collecting and gathering testimonials, but just ensuring that your overall client or customer experience is positive. And I think that feedback, whether it's super positive, maybe it's not so great, or maybe it's not exactly what you wanted to hear, but it's always great to hear it. It stings at first, it really does. But it really does help show maybe any holes in your process or in your delivery or in any part of your workflows or processes. So that's really beneficial. And something that we recently implemented earlier this year is asking testimonials. We're very lucky to work with clients for several months, some clients, several years, which is very great, but there's no really end in sight. And asking those provoking questions as we're going through working together, whether we're just managing their accounts, maybe after a launch or anything at all that is happening on those social channels.

It's just great to kind of check in again, see how things are going and to gather those testimonials versus waiting till who knows when that's going to happen? So this has been such an amazing episode, so many great topics that we've covered and just so many different actionable things. So I'd love to know, Erin, what has social media done for your business or what opportunities has it presented for you?

(ERIN) That's a great question. And what immediately came to mind, it's not exactly the same as I said before, but it's related to what I said smack dab in the beginning of this episode is that the biggest blessing for social media has been introducing me to people that I wouldn't have access to.

And I said that prior about personal blogging way back in the day. But really when it comes to social media, the people I talk to, besides a couple of close friends that I might do little tiny check ins with, they're all business owners that I've either worked with as their copywriter that I've hired for my own business or like what I like to call the cheerleaders.

The people that you'll probably never work together, but they will recommend you because they get to know you well enough and they just appreciate you. And they're from all over the world, not just all over the country. In the United States where I am, it's all over the world. And I would have never crossed paths with them in a coffee shop locally to me. And some of them are my closest friends. And even if they're not my closest friends, I feel like I've learned so much from the people that I communicate with that has just made me a better person. So I'd say it's not even so much the business lesson, even though it definitely impacts my business because these are my clients and these are my quote unquote coworkers. But it's really, truly just that I have access to people I would have never had access to before.

(JESS) Yeah, social media is amazing, and I know it opens so many amazing doors for different people. And I love that it's really had that effect on your business and also on your life. And that's so amazing.

Well, thank you so much, Erin, for joining us on the podcast today. Before we sign off, where can our listeners find out more about you, your business, your services, and also your testimonial course? I'm interested to know more about that too.

(ERIN) Yeah, absolutely. So the easiest way to get to know me better is literally staying in your podcast player and just heading over to my podcast. I wish people did this more often, where I might be listening to a show and I find someone new and cool, and it turns out they have a podcast, but they never told me about it. So, guys, you're listening. Click on over to talk copy to me. It's my marketing and messaging podcast, and it's built specifically for businesses. It's not built for copywriters. We're not having, like, technical discussions. We're talking about the ways that you can improve your business in a way that feels good and natural for you. So that's the easy option. But besides that, you can find me usually everywhere based on my name, which is Erin Olilla. And I know it's a mouthful of the last name, but here's the cool thing about SEO. This is my little trick for you guys. Google knows me so well now that if you misspell my last name, they'll still send you my way.

They'll still have my website as the first option. So I know that we're talking about websites a lot and really how important social is so important. But if we can get that SEO, introducing us to Google and letting Google be a cheerleader for us, then it's going to make things like this, like getting to know people, so much easier. So hop on over to my website. That's how you can work with me. Everything is laid out clearly there. And if you're interested in my testimonial toolbox tool, it's also available from my website. I will share the link with you. Jessica. It is a course, sure, but it's also a mini course. Like everyone who has filled out the completion form, the one thing that they say is, oh, I could actually sit down and just do this over lunch and have everything organized, right? Like, have the system in place, have the questions in front of me, and know what I need to do.

So I like to really point that out because I know we've all taken a million courses and there's a million things on our to do list, but if you can just dedicate a tiny period of time, I wish I'd probably look at how long it is. Maybe an hour and a half, tops. I'd say it will set you up completely. And when you invest in things like SEO, like testimonial, like learning how to do it, it's a one time learning thing that provides value forever. So, yeah, I invite you to come and take that. And, Jessica, if it works for you and your audience, I'm happy to share a discount code, too, for everyone. I'll share that with Jessica after the call, and I hope I find some of you guys over in my course program.

(JESS) Yeah, that would be so great. I will work with Erin on getting that promotion code for the testimonial toolbox, and we will put that in the show notes. Thank you again, Erin, for joining us on the show. And thank you, everyone, for listening. Until next time.

Meet Erin Ollila

Conversion copywriter. Copy Coach.Wing Woman. Word slinger. No matter what you call her, Erin Ollila believes in the power of words and how a message can inform—and even transform—its intended audience.

When she’s not working with big brands and small businesses to marry strategy, storytelling, and SEO, you can find her hosting the Talk Copy to Me podcast or exploring southeastern MA with her family and friends. Erin graduated from Fairfield University with an M.F.A. in Creative Writing and then co-founded Spry Literary Journal, which celebrates undiscovered and established writers' concise, experimental, hybrid, modern, vintage or just-plain-vulnerable writing.

Connect with Erin

Reach out to her on Instagram at @ErinOllila, or visit her website https://erinollila.com

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Jessica Sheehy
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